A Contester's views and wishes for Contest support on WRL

[WC5B]

General Impressions: (POST ARRL DX SSB)

First, let me start with pointing out that contesting / radio sport is now and always has been a massively important part of ham radio. It hit’s all of the entire reason’s that the Amateur Radio Service exists that we learn while studying for our first license. It is about community and international goodwill, about technical skill and innovation trying to get that best signal out there, and at it’s core, practice for emergencies and disasters.

Please don’t take these opinion’s as an attack or even frustration. I only offer my opinion because I absolutely LOVE what WRL is and where it’s going! I honestly feel there is nothing that already exists or on the horizon that is anywhere near as exciting in the realm of ham logging, utility, and community. So my opinion is just that and simply my hopes and wishes or WRL in the realm of contesting. Here is my overall impressions currently.

I have listened to how the team talks about the contest logging portion of the project, answered posts regarding it, and recently the interview that happened the last couple days (qoute “WRL is the perfect Contest Logger” lol) and I have come to the conclusion that the development team simply does not really understand or partake much in contesting. It is very apparent that the passions of the team is in other things such as POTA, etc. It was drilled home with the reaction on the podcast regarding the surprise that the ARRL DX SSB contest was so popular and rivaled the Winter Field Day, a relatively small contest on the calander. The Winter Field Day was only popular on WRL because the team put so much focus on it with the additional features working and the team pushed it’s activity. ARRL DX SSB was NATURALLY high because it’s one of the largest events on the entire ham calendar! I would actually say that the usage for the event was actually very small because the functionality just isn’t there for what most serious contesters desire. The fact I won the leaderboard is all you need to know. LOL I will likely be in the Top 150 in the actual scoring. The team having different interest’s does not mean that’s wrong with this. Ham Radio has something for everyone and not everything it has is for everyone. However, I really think it’s a mistake to not understand how important contesting is to ham radio and a MASSIVE percentage of the ham radio population, EXPESSIALLY overseas. Many many hams just ignore loggers without the functionality that requires a good logger with features they need to be useful and no activity in ham radio really requires a great logger more than contesting. I feel the development team feels like scoring and such is a hurdle with so many contests, not realizing that A. 95% of the contests out there use the same few simple scoring toggle’s that would work for that vast majority and B. nobody expects a contest logger to have EVERY contest that draws 25 people. They want the MAJOR contests or are content with at least the most major one’s while other’s get added over time. I believe that if the team at least agrees that contesting should be a core feature of WRL that it is my humble opinion that there should be focus on a few feature’s.

So what is working?

• CAT Control is an extreamly important feature to contesters! Having to take time to enter every frequency for every contact is just not feasible in today’s contester world.
• Contest enrollment / info and new log builder automatically is REALLY awesome!! Could use a more streamlined method of adding a contest. Maybe having contest manager’s for the different contest’s? dunno
• Stat’s and Map is a cool feature in a world that has ZERO cool feature’s. Having the map and/or stat’s up on another screen is a game changer that nobody else really does at all, let alone as great and modern looking as WRL does.
• Ability to have Cloud import’s from more dedicated contest and digi software is an important feature and really the only reason to use the contest logging feature in real time if you are actually going to be active in the contest. It’s fine to use the current log if you only intend to do a few contacts, but any real activity, without Cloud logging from another logger, the only real backup plan is to just import it after the contest is over which negates the BEST part of the entire WRL contest package which is….
• The Leaderboard! NOTHING out there allows contesters to see in real time how they are doing. There is options to find out some info after the contest with sites that let you to post your claimed scores, but to see it in real time as the contest is going on!? I don’t think you know how game changing this could be if you also attract contesters with some other features. This feature alone is a massive attractor to 1000’s of ham’s if those other feature’s exist as a full package. Again, especially for the foreign ham’s which are avid contester’s. I do think some contest’s should be separated leaderboard’s such as Category for DX contest’s ( think this would actually be a massive plus in at least the BIG Contests) and Out of State QSO Party’s, but even without that, this is really massive feature that contester’s will love as they discover WRL!

What is missing the mark:

• The elephant in the room is the scoring. Logging a contest with out the scoring and the multiplier’s defeat’s the purpose of being a “contest log”. Adding a box for the exchange is no different that just adding a “notes” box to the normal window and adding a sequential number basically mean’s nothing to 95% of the contests out there. I am sure there is a few that have just a “point’s per contact” but the VAST majority, big or small, have multiplier’s. I think the crew think’s that the contest’s are so different, but the vast majority follow the same basic rules that could be simple toggle’s. How many point’s is a QSO worth? Is a Multiplier a Section, a State, or a DXCC? Are multiplier’s achievable once or on each band? Almost every contest can be achieved with these question’s answered. (Edit: I will confess that the CQ WPX contest’s which are some of the biggest of the year are a bit more complex, but the rest are pretty simple) Also, nobody honestly would expect an app to cover the 100’s of contest’s that exist. The one’s that draw a few operator’s at most are large in number and they are used to using general logging and are often basic scoring. However, IMOP it should be a real focus on legit scoring and PR coverage for the MAJOR events. The surprise at how well the contest DID do this last weekend show’s that the team just isn’t aware with the current team’s personal radio passion’s. If development knew what target’s that would draw the most activity, they would have a target to develop for and by doing so, would create the infrastructure / data needed to activate 90% of the other contests out there in doing so. The one’s most important (most of these have different weekends for the different mode’s) to US Ham’s are ARRL and CQ World DX Contests, the CQ WPX Contest’s, and the ARRL Field Day. There are also other international contests that are important to Europe and other Region’s that reaching out to contester’s in those region’s could fill in the blank’s. I know this is lower on the priority list with the team, but IMOP this feature is really critical to attracting so many ham’s to WRL that with it’s other feature’s like the leaderboard’s could instantly put WRL as a MAJOR player in the Contest Community which is far bigger than I think you guys realize.
• This would likely be fixed if scoring is fixed, but when the logger doesn’t like an added qso, it show’s that you have x QSO’s and x-1 Point’s. However, it does not tell you why you have less score and where the error is. What is worse is the logbook side of the screen doesn’t show the exchange info to know what was wrong or not entered. At least showing the Exchange info in the logbook portion would go a long ways to help with this.
• What is basically what I would call the “contest mode” isn’t REALLY a contest mode. It’s a log with an added box. This isn’t really what a contester is looking for. I am not sure it is possible in the web, but maybe in the desktop, this could be fixed. What is really needed is a true “contest mode”. What we need is to enter a callsign and hit enter or tab and be in the exchange box and then the next enter log’s the contact and put’s curser back in the callsign box. This would be BARE BONES what a contester would like to see. With this and the above item with the feature’s ALREADY included in WRL like Leaderboard, Stat’s, and Mapping, WRL would IMOP exactly find it’s SWEET spot as the King of the do it all Ham for a software suite! Sure, there are other feature’s that would LITERALLY make it “The Perfect Contest Logger” but WRL doesn’t HAVE to be the Perfect Contest Logger. Being the best ALL AROUND logger that is competent at contest logging make’s it automatically the only option out there that truly does it all! I of course am not a developer, but this just does not seem that unattainable. I don’t want to be that dude that assumes it’s so easy when it’s not, but I do think it would go a long ways at attracting more ham’s than you may think.
• As for other wish list of item’s that range in difficulty that would be awesome long term wish’s….. Tracking in stat’s for Multi’s on each band and score breakdown, adding a “new multi” highlighted message when there is a callsign in the box that would yield a multi if logged, color coding callsign’s in the spot’s that show red for worked and green for new mult’s (in contest’s that info would auto be known for such as new DX or new Prefix) would be awesome! Ability to program Macro’s to send CW and even Phone with button’s and keybind’s is a common feature in the big contest logger’s also.

To close out:

Thank you so much for all the hard work on this project. It really is shaping up to be an important suite for the ham community and I find it friggin amazing! I show it off to everybody. Invited a buddy over just to look at it. LOL However, I really really think this project is doing itself a disservice to not highlight contesting even more. It feels like the team THINK’S it’s amazing already but here is what I think would go a LONG WAYS! I think the team need’s to add a Contest GURU / Rep to the team. Someone that can guide the project in that space from someone that is big into it the same way that WRL is the best POTA logger PERIOD because it was guided by those that LOVE and LIVE POTA.

You know, while I am thinking about it…. This was born out of Ham Radio Prep right? There is something called Contest University that was started (I believe) by Tim K3LR, one of the largest contester’s in the country. Wouldn’t it be cool if someone reached out to him and had some collab with Contest University and Ham Radio Prep with Contester courses while also having advisor on everything contester needed for WRL? Again, WRL doesn’t have to be the most hardcore of the hardcore contest loggers, but with a few basic feature’s, it could be the BEST for the majority of contester’s!

Keep up the great work and please don’t take this as negative and instead my own passion for your creation.

73 Tom WC5B

P.S. not checking this for grammar and spelling so sorry in advance. I talk to much for that. LOL

[K4AZE]

@WC5B Hey Thomas,

First thank you for taking the time to write such a thoughtful and detailed post. Feedback like this is incredibly valuable to us, and it’s clear it comes from a genuine passion for both contesting and the future of WRL. We truly appreciate the support and the fact that you care enough about the platform to share such in-depth thoughts.

You are absolutely right about one thing in particular: contesting is a massive and foundational part of amateur radio. We definitely recognize that, and it’s something we want WRL to support well.

When we first started building the contesting features in WRL, our primary goal was actually quite simple: to give newer operators an easy way to participate in contests without needing to learn complex software right away. Many new hams hear about contests but feel intimidated by the tooling. WRL was meant to lower that barrier so someone could jump in, make contacts, and be part of the experience.

That said, as WRL has grown, it’s become very clear just how large and passionate the contesting community is—and how important good contest tooling is for many operators. Because of that, the contesting side of WRL is receiving significant attention internally right now. However with that said, we’ve been focused on meeting our requirements for hosting the WRTC contest this year.

Even though our focus has been on ensuring we meet our deliverables for WRTC, we are currently working on several major updates to the contesting side of the platform, including:

• A new scoring engine designed to handle contest logic much more flexibly

• Expanded multiplier support (sections, states, DXCC, prefixes, band-based multipliers, etc.)

• Improvements to the contest logging workflow and operator experience

• Better error feedback and log visibility for exchanges and scoring

• Enhancements that will allow us to support many more major contests efficiently

These improvements are aimed specifically at addressing many of the exact points you mentioned. The goal is to build a solid contest framework that supports the major events well while also making it easier to expand coverage over time.

You also touched on something we strongly believe in: WRL doesn’t necessarily need to replace the most specialized contest software out there. Instead, our goal is to build the best all-around amateur radio platform—one that does logging, awards, community, visualization, contesting, and more in a modern way. With features like the real-time leaderboard, stats, and mapping, we believe WRL can bring some genuinely new experiences into contesting that haven’t existed before.

Your comments about workflow, scoring clarity, and contest-specific functionality are all extremely helpful as we continue shaping this part of the platform. We’re very aware that contesting plays a huge role in amateur radio—especially internationally—and we want WRL to grow into something that serves that community well.

Most importantly, thank you again for the encouragement and for showing WRL to other operators. That kind of enthusiasm from the community is what helps drive the project forward.

One additional point worth mentioning is that the leaderboard currently reflects only WRL users who are enrolled in that specific contest, rather than all operators participating in the event. At this time, there is no universal source for real-time contest scores across the entire amateur radio community. Because operators use a wide variety of different logging applications during contests—and there is no centralized live scoring database—it isn’t currently possible to aggregate live scoring data from every participant. As a result, the leaderboard shows real-time standings within the WRL participant group for that contest, rather than the full global field.

Thanks & 73
Brad K4AZE

[N0APX]

WOW! This is some AWESOME feedback @WC5B! Thank you SO much for taking the time and thought to write this. We have some great things for contesting on the horizon, but, as you stated, none of us are large scale contestors. However, some of the team will be attending a Contesting University talk in Dayton before hamvention in May, and we intend to glean from that as well as many other things to really understand what makes the “big guns” (and any avid contestors) tick. Thank you again, and we look forward to making your vision come alive!
73,
Andy N0APX
WRL Product Manager

[N0WRL]

@WC5B thank you so much for the detailed input!! It is honor to have you here to help advise on this, and also your support as a VIP Founding Member, we are really grateful for that!

I think @K4AZE said it very well, but I will add a couple quick points!

We are fully aware of the contesting limitations in our platform today, especially around scoring.

There may be some marketing content that talks about our innovative approach to contesting (we have true real time contesting, ) but we’ve tried to address this very point, especially around scoring, every opportunity we get.

The main thing we’ve accomplished today is getting thousands of new hams involved in contesting for the first time by making it easy.

We’ve also laid important ground work like Cabrillo export, leaderboards, contest exchanges, etc.

We are building contesting in phases. We have already managed to accomplish several innovations in our approach, but the reason you don’t see scoring in the platform today is NOT because we are ignoring it, neglecting it, or don’t understand it - it is because it is a major project to create a system that will allow us to properly score a wide range of contests (each with very particular rules, points, and multipliers).

Many of these features have already been designed, but not yet implemented.

It’s just a matter of time. WRL itself is only two years old! We schedule and plan development and work as fast as we can.

Long story short - THESE FEATURES ARE COMING SOON!

[W7YBY]

Tom’s post was excellent and he made a lot of great points.

Brad and James touched on something that a lot of the newer users may not be really aware of, and that’s WRL’s role in the upcoming World Radiosport Team Championship.

I’ve said it before and will say it again, I would much rather see WRL put resources behind that scoring effort (which will eventually roll to us regular users) so that the contestants have an excellent product to use; because if that effort fails and there are problems with scoring during the contest, then WRL’s worldwide reputation will be smeared in the mud and none of us want to see that.

I know James is trying to balance the resources between us and the WRTC needs, but I would be more than happy to have to wait for various feature requests if that means the WRTC efforts pay off in a smooth contest and therefore great publicity for WRL. Perhaps others would be more sympathetic to waiting if they knew what else WRL is working toward?

Remember, more good publicity results in more new members and the probability of more PAID members which results in more financial resources for WRL to spend on our behalf. Those of us who have become paid members are in a way stakeholders in the success of WRL, and like Warren Buffett, I’m in it for the long game.

[WC5B]

Thank you for all the replies! All of which is very positive and exciting. Just wanted to hit on two follow up thing’s. Brad mentioned that I mentioned something about leaderboard getting data from outside WRL. If it read like that, I did not intend it to do so. I wrote it as fast as I could while on a quick break which is why I joked about grammar and spelling. LOL I understand that isn’t feasible and was just saying that as WRL grow’s it will be a major feature to bring people in that contester’s will love as they discover it.

My other primary point is just to get that great advisor that can help advise on a contester’s prospective. If you are going to Contest University, you will meet many. Contest University was one of the best and most unique experience’s I have had in ham radio. You will love it.

WRTC will be fun to watch for sure also. One of these day’s I really want to do some Multi-op Multi-Transmitter operation’s. Problem is nobody does it in the entire call area. LOL They all move out to the East Coast to work Europe lol

[N0WRL]

@W7YBY thank you good point!

We have to balance a lot of features in progress at the same time, and WRTC is a BIG one!

Right now, we are working towards a big end to end test at the end of March! We will be testing the full setup with Raspberry Pi at each logging station and custom team scoreboards.

[W7YBY]

Good. I would suggest a pinned post for everyone to see that explains the WRTC, WRL’s role in it, how important this is to WRL, and then periodic updates to help give the average user a sense of what’s going on behind the scenes and why their requested feature might be on the back burner for a little bit.

After all, just like the trickle down effect from NASA’s space missions brought new technology to the masses, so will WRL’s efforts in the WRTC bring us new features in our logging program.